Oral Histories
Debra Seltzer
Interviewer: This Interview for the Columbus Jewish Historical Society is being recorded on the 14th day of September 25, 2025, as part of the Columbus Jewish Historical Society Oral History Project. The interview is being recorded at the Columbus Public Library Northside Branch on North High Street. Let’s start with your full name.
Seltzer: Okay. Debra Beth Seltzer.
Interviewer: Okay. Do you have a Jewish name?
Seltzer: D’vorah.
Interviewer: D’vorah. Okay. Who are you named for?
Seltzer: Nobody. I was the first born and my mom just got to pick a name and she never could really explain why she picked it.
Interviewer: Okay.
Seltzer: My brother and sister are both named after people and I’m not, so.
Interviewer: Okay. How far back can you trace your family?
Seltzer: The paperwork actually had me go back to my great grandparents and so I did have the, stuff out, but I think for most of them we can go back another generation or two but not much more than that.
Interviewer: And where in the world?
Seltzer: Hungary, Lithuania, Romania and Poland. All four grandparents came from different places.
Interviewer: Okay. Can you give me family names for them?
Seltzer: The grandparents? Specifically, oh, you want last names.
Interviewer: Yeah. We’ll start with that and then maybe the full name of your birth parents.
Seltzer: Okay. Maybe I’ll kind-of go the other.
Interviewer: Yeah, you can go either direction.
Seltzer: Okay, so my dad is Martin Seltzer, and he was born in New York City and his parents were David Seltzer who was born in Saroka, Romani, and his mother was Francis Wonder later Seltzer, who was born in New York City herself, and her mother was also born in New York City, but my grandparents were a different generation, so they all, their families all came to the United States within about fifteen years of each other.
Interviewer: Which was what?
Seltzer: Like, Nineteen, well, the turn of the century.
Interviewer: All right.
Seltzer: So, five years before and five years after the turn of the century, like, around that ten-year range.
Interviewer: And you are talking about the Twentieth Century.
Seltzer: Yeah, like, that’s what I was getting confused about the Hundreds. It’s 1890 to, 1895 to 1905, like around that range is when they came.
Interviewer: So, they came before the First World War and before the Second World War and all of that.
Seltzer: Yeah.
Interviewer: And were established in New York City?
Seltzer: So, of my four grandparents, three of them came to the United States as small children.
Interviewer: Okay.
Seltzer: So, their parents came as adults, but the one, my dad’s mother, her mother was also born in New York, but she was like, her parents were really contemporary. It gets confusing with the generations. My dad was, my grandma was seventeen when my dad was born and he’s the oldest and my mom was the baby, and her parents were much older when she was born so that’s when generations get real weird.
Interviewer: Sure. Oh, I know and you can have twenty years in there without even trying.
Seltzer: Yeah. Yeah, so, and then my.
Interviewer: And they were all in New York City when they came?
Seltzer: No. That’s on my dad’s side, so, that’s, my dad’s side is what I said. His mother and grandmother who were both born in New York, their prior generation was from Poland. So, and then my mom’s side, Marjory Cort, and her father.
Interviewer: Do you want to spell her last name, please?
Seltzer: C-o-r-t.
Interviewer: Oh. Okay.
Seltzer: Her dad was Louis Cort and he was born in Lithuania and came to the United States as a small child, and her mother, Esther, I think you pronounce it Matyas, which is M-a-t-y-a-s was born in Hungary.
Interviewer: Okay.
Seltzer: and her parents came with five young children from Hungary, so. So.
Interviewer: Thanks. That’s great. Did they already have family in this country when they emigrated or, what was the motivation for immigrating?
Seltzer: Yeah, siblings, like, I don’t, so, my, my great grandfather who came to New York, his, one of his brothers was here but, the, yeah, it was great grandparents who came, and it was siblings of theirs that came and it was all economic. I mean, there was like a few stories of, like, family members disappearing into the Russian Army kind of thing, you know, and, my Grandfather Cort who came from Lithuania, I think that there was a pogrom near them, you know, so there was some of that, but it was, I think it was more economic than that.
Interviewer: Okay, and are they, once you’ve gotten through a couple generations, is your family still pretty much east coast based or have they spread all out?
Seltzer: There’s a strong California wing…
Interviewer: Okay.
Seltzer: …and then a few, I mean, so my cousins, big chunk in California, then one near Chicago- Wisconsin area. I have cousins in Washington, DC area, and Upstate New York area and then my brother and sister are in Michigan and Maryland, so, spread out.
Interviewer: Okay. Do you have any family still left in the quote “Old Country”?
Seltzer: Oh, no, not since they’re all gone. So, during World War II, my grandmother’s aunt and cousins were still in Hungary, and mostly died. They brought one of the cousins over, after the War and there’s been a little bit of contact with, like that person’s descendants…
Interviewer: Okay,
Seltzer: …so that was the only people that were there that were that close during World War II.
Interviewer: So, there, there really weren’t, so, it was pretty much the end of the line, and then it sort-of transferred here to the U.S. Were they in a single neighborhood or area of New York City where they all congregated?
Seltzer: So, you know, that’s my dad’s side.
Interviewer: Okay. Again.
Seltzer: My mom’s side was all in Cleveland. I don’t know if I said that. They, actually, never went to New York.
Interviewer: Okay.
Seltzer: They went through the Great Lakes to Cleveland, directly, I think.
Interviewer: Okay.
Seltzer: All of them did that. One of the stories was that one of the grandmothers, like one of my mom’s great grandmothers, had an eye condition and when it hadn’t made it in Ellis Island, so somehow, they knew to go through the Great Lakes. That’s one of the stories.
Interviewer: Did they all come through Ellis Island?
Seltzer: No. That’s the thing. My, my Cleveland relatives didn’t go through Ellis Island.
Interviewer: Okay.
Seltzer: That was the point of why they ended up in Cleveland, almost. So, my dad’s family, he grew up, my dad, my dad actually, has been interviewed through this Project, like, he’s on file with the Project. He’s still alive. He’s here.
Interviewer: Yeah, say, “Hi,” for me. He wouldn’t know who I am.
Seltzer: Okay. Okay. Yeah. So, he grew up on the Lower East Side of Manhattan, like, all the way to adulthood and then when he was in college, his parents moved to Queens and they, I can still remember all of them being in Queens, like, through, actually, my daughter, who’s now thirty, visited them in Queens when they were still living.
Interviewer: Okay. Oh, that’s great. How did your parents meet?
Seltzer: All these interesting questions. So, my mom was in Cleveland. My dad was going to NYC and had a summer job in Columbus. My mom was in Cleveland, but he was in a Jewish fraternity and one of his fraternity brothers was dating a friend of my mom’s in Cleveland, and she brought my mom down for a double date, and so, they started writing and a number of years went by and, eventually, my mom, my dad was actually in a PhD program at Yale, but my mom got a job in New York City so, they started actually seeing each other again.
Interviewer: Oh, that’s a great story.
Seltzer: So, they met in Columbus. They never lived in Columbus, but then they eventually ended up here later on, so.
Interviewer: So, they, so, where and when were they married?
Seltzer: Cleveland, 1960, October 22nd, 1960.
Interviewer: Okay, that’s great, and you have brothers and sisters?
Seltzer: One of each. I’m the oldest.
Interviewer: You’re the oldest. So, it’s you and…
Seltzer: …my sister, Rena…
Interviewer: Okay.
Seltzer: … who lives in Michigan now, in Michigan, and my brother Joel is the one in Maryland.
Interviewer: Okay. Let’s see, and then you grew up in…
Seltzer: Mostly Columbus.
Interviewer: Mostly Columbus.
Seltzer: I was born in New Haven, while dad was still there.
Interviewer: Oh, so Dad was finishing up at Yale.
Seltzer: Yeah, and then my weird little story is that they went to the Netherlands when I was three months old…
Interviewer: Oh, gosh.
Seltzer: …so, my three months to fifteen months was in the Netherlands, in Eindhoven, but then they came here and I’ve been here ever since.
Interviewer: Alright. Oh, that’s good. Alright. So, what were you like as a teenager?
Seltzer: Ah, I was pretty quiet, like, actually, I was in a different setting yesterday and someone was describing a quality of mine as being a nerd and someone said, “Were you calling Debra a nerd?” and I was, like, I’m good with that. It’s okay. “My, my mom was really into alternative education and stuff and so we went to a lot of different schools, many of which were very informal, so I was pretty comfortable…
Interviewer: Here in Columbus.
Seltzer: Yeah.
Interviewer: Okay.
Seltzer: …pretty comfortable with like, kind-of a self-education, and just kind-of followed my own path, and was never, I didn’t, I was never, I wasn’t, like, the kid that went to school with the same kids in my whole life, so I didn’t have, like really close friends. I got along with people okay but was kind of more of an on-my-own kind- of a kid.
Interviewer: Okay, and a little bit about your growing up time, so where you went to school, college major…
Seltzer: So, Jewish part, grew up at Beth Tikvah when it was just a tiny little congregation on Indianola which is what I think the interview with my dad is a lot about, the history of Beth Tikvah in those years. They didn‘t move to Worthington until I was in college, so, my entire experience with Beth Tikvah was a tiny little community congregation. My schools, like I said, so, I went to kindergarten at the OSU Experimental School but then that closed, went to public school for a few years, went to the Metropolitan School of Columbus which is one of these liberal kind-of schools.
Interviewer: Progressive.
Seltzer: Progressive, yes, progressive, I couldn’t think of the right word, back to public school for a while and then when I was in 10th grade, for my junior year was when the Columbus Alternative High School opened, and so I was one of the founding students at Columbus Alternative High School and went there. We didn’t get diplomas because it was only a half day program and the diploma still came through your own school, so my high school diploma is from Whetstone, but I literally went to Whetstone for 10th grade and then I went to Oberlin for college undergraduate and a few years later got a master’s degree at OSU.
Interviewer: …in…
Seltzer: Public Administration…
Interviewer: Okay, and then jobwise?
Seltzer: So, when I got back from being at Oberlin, I started working for the local Red Crisis Center, which was like a radical feminist collective at the time, and, oh, actually my first job was going door-to-door, getting donations, like, we were fully community funded, which was amazing…
Interviewer: Yes.
Seltzer: …and then worked for the State Sexual Assault Coalition for eight years, and then that was when the Violence Against Women Act passed at the Federal level and there started to be funds coming from the Federal government to local programs and the State Health Department Administers that and I took that job in 1998 and I’ve been there ever since. I’m still there.
Interviewer: Okay. That’s great. Are you married?
Seltzer: Well, not legally and not at all anymore. My partner was a woman and we were together. We were in, I’m really bad with dates, 1994 maybe, married by Rabbi Huber at Beth Tikvah which was the first lesbian wedding he ever did, but they weren’t at all legal at the time…
Interviewer: Sure.
Seltzer: …and by the time gay marriage started being legal, we had separated, so we’re not, we were never legally married.
Interviewer: Okay. Do you have children?
Seltzer: One daughter.
Interviewer: And her name?
Seltzer: Tova T-o-v-a.
Interviewer: Okay. Alright. What else do I need to do? I guess it would be a little bit interesting for you to describe to us your wedding day, just because it seems like it’s historically very significant and in a Jewish sense significant as well.
Seltzer: Yeah. Um, gosh, I forget if we did it at the, now I don’t remember what it was called, in the German Village, no, no Parsons and Broad Street, like fire, it was an old museum, fire house or something?
Interviewer: Yes. Right.
Seltzer: I forget exactly what it was called, but so Garba [?] and I, Garba, my ex, who I’m still on good terms with, and she’s very much my daughter’s other mom, like, we, we got pregnant after we were married and, you know, I’m the biological mom but we were always co-parents and she continues to be a co-, has continued to always be a co-parent ever since. She lives in Portland, Maine now and has a new partner whose name is also Deb, which is a little bit confusing, but, but, so, the two of us have been really active in the gay community. We have been like, bowling which is kind of bizarre to me, like I would never bowl before and haven’t bowled since, but there was a gay bowling league which was mostly men, but we, why I brought it up is because we invited, like, the entire bowling league to our wedding so we had a lot of gay men at our wedding, and then, like, my parents are really active in the Jewish community locally, so it was a really big wedding. I think it was like, I don’t know maybe a like a hundred and, a hundred people or something, probably not more than that, I don’t know, but like, my family came in from around the country which was really nice, and we did it in the outdoors. There was a gazebo so that was really what we used instead of a chuppah. Rabbi Huber performed the ceremony. It was very Jewish. My, my ex, was brought up Southern Baptist. She converted to Judaism after we met, but before Tova was born and still is actively Jewish and it wasn’t to be with me. It was that she came to Jewish things with me and found them to be meaningful and wanted to be Jewish, so, we had the ceremony and everything and we became, we became members of Beth Tikvah for a while and this might be jumping ahead a little bit but, so, you know, became members before Tova was born, and then did participate until she was in third grade and then had some things that we were very frustrated and angry about and dropped out of Beth Tikvah and had not been members for a while when Little Minyan got started.
Interviewer: Okay. So, we’re going to get to that. No, that’s okay. We’re going to get to that. Let’s just talk about you just a little bit more and then we will move on and talk a little bit about what happened with the new congregation. A little, you said you’re still working, told us where you’re working. How about hobbies, other interests, things you are active and participatory in?
Seltzer: So, super social justice, like, up to my ears in social justice stuff. Obviously, all the, with the sexual assault and domestic violence work, that have been since college really, and then when my daughter left for college in 2014, I guess, I don’t, in 2016 I became active in a group called Showing up For Racial Justice which just started then in Columbus. It had been around nationally longer, but, I’ve been very involved with that ever since, like, super active, and then more recently also, it kind-of weaves in and out with Little Minyan stuff, but we started about five years ago a group called Central Ohio Jews for Justice, which is intended to be social justice oriented, separate from denominations, and I was involved when we first got that started about five years ago and I’m even more involved now where it’s been reactivated since October 7th. [? word]
Interviewer: I’m interested if you have any comments on historical events that have a major impact on your life, especially your Jewish life, and they would be things like, 9/11, the Covid epidemic…
Seltzer: Um, interesting question. I wouldn’t say 9/11 particularly, had an impact on my Jewish life, trying to think…
Interviewer: Or anything else, you know, that people would consider, like, a major event, like…
Seltzer: …like an external world kind-of a thing. I mean, I think it would, I mean, like COVID, definitely effected our Jewish community, I think, in ways that were meaningful, but I feel like that would probably come up in the other conversation. The really, the, so, I spent a year in Israel. For my junior year at college, I was in Israel and so that affected me.
Interviewer: Talk a little bit about that, just sort-of basic impressions or what moved you while you were there?
Seltzer: Yeah, I mean, it’s an interesting question, like, I mean, I loved being there. It was a really good experience. You know, everybody who’s ever been to Israel knows that everybody always asks. “When are you going to move here?” and I never wanted to move there, like, I was always very clear of that.
Interviewer: Were you on a kibbutz or in the city or…?
Seltzer: I was there for a whole year, so, I was actually, through Hebrew University but the first, first six weeks was an ulpan on the Givat Ram campus and there was a break, and I went to a kibbutz in the Golan Heights for a month, and then back to Jerusalem to the Mt. Scopus campus for a semester but then, like, I already talked about being a little bit off, like, I didn’t, I didn’t really, it was a wonderful six months, like, I, but it was an American ghetto, like, all of the American students like, hung together. The Israelis weren’t very interested in getting to know us, so, I dropped out and went to Sde Boker and Yerucham, which are, Yerucham is a town in the desert kind-of…
Interviewer: South.
Seltzer: Yeah, south but whatever the way, away from the Sea, from, from, what’s the big, Be’er-Sheva. It’s like, kind-of further toward the Jordan River from Be’er-Sheva. It’s kind-of in the middle of nowhere, really, but it is near Sde Boker, which is a kibbutz, and I, I did some work at the kibbutz and some work in the town with, like, teaching kids English was kind-of my…
Interviewer: So, your Hebrew’s pretty good.
Seltzer: It was. I haven’t used it. That was in 1982-83 and I haven’t really used, like, I can read Hebrew really well, and, like, weird things come up but I can really read pretty well.
Interviewer: So. that’s fine. You’ve told me about your community activity. So, your temple or synagogue affiliation is KSS?
Seltzer: Yeah.
Interviewer: Okay, and you’re active in that?
Seltzer: Um-hum.
Interviewer: What roles have you played in that?
Seltzer: Okay, so….
Interviewer: Are you a founding member?
Seltzer: Yeah. Okay, so going back a little bit, so, like, we dropped out, out of Beth Tikvah, like, not to complain about them too much, but my daughter was in third grade and that was the year that the Reform congregations came out with a gender-neutral prayerbook and there was a big community meeting to decide whether they were going to invest in buying the new prayerbook or not, and we spoke passionately about how important it was to us that our daughter not be taught that God was a man and the community voted to keep the old prayerbook, and so, we quit. So, at the same time, my sister in Ann Arbor was part of a Reconstructionist Chaverah which we visited often and loved so I tried actively, like I had ads in the paper and stuff to find other people who wanted to start a Reconstructionist congregation here in Central Ohio. One other person who later got involved in Little Minyan, her name was Renee, Renee, shoot, I forgot her last name. Gal and then Pronak I think was her full name. I’ll have to double check on that but, so, we were actually meeting a little bit, like in coffee shops about how do we get a community started. A couple of years went by. We were, you know, I was kind-of doing, like, teaching Tova Jewish education, as much as I could, but we were getting closer to her bat mitzvah, so, feeling more stressed out about that, and my mom and dad had been active at Beth Tikvah all the way, like, they were not quite founding members, but pretty close to founding members at Beth Tikvah, but, were part of the group that ended up starting, so there was a meeting that I was not at, which was people at Beth Tikvah, who were frustrated with Beth Tikvah and that was where – this is the story I was told – that was where the name Little Minyan was invented because one of the people in the group, they were talking about, like, “Well, do you think we can really do this and…”
Interviewer: …because you’ll need a minyan. Right.
Seltzer: Well, I was actually a little bit annoyed. I don’t know if you read the newspaper article that was just in the Columbus Jewish News, and it said there were ten families. I don’t think there were ten families. I don’t think there was that at all, like I think that was a little bit, I don’t know who said that but. it was a small group and they were, like, “Well we can be the Little Minyan That Could.” It was more about The Little Engine That Could and less about the minyan, you know? Honestly.
Interviewer: Okay.
Seltzer: It’d be interesting to hear how Rabbi Jessica tells the story, and my dad even ‘cause my dad was there.
Interviewer: Okay.
Seltzer: My mom and dad were both there at that meeting and I heard about it from them. I don’t actually know if there was more than one meeting that I missed, but at some point very soon thereafter I started getting involved, so, I was definitely in very early but not a very-first- meeting kind-of a member.
Interviewer: Okay. We’ll talk about that a little bit more specifically soon. How about holidays in your family. Do you celebrate holidays? Do you go to worship regularly?
Seltzer: Yes.
Interviewer: Okay. Your daughter also?
Seltzer: I mean not as an adult.
Interviewer: Yeah. She’s not here.
Seltzer: Yeah. She lives in Jersey City actually now and she’s not doing much of anything Jewish. She comes home sometimes and does things with me, but.
Interviewer: Are your family ties strong?
Seltzer: Yes. Uhn-hun
Interviewer: All around?
Seltzer: Yeah. Yeah. Very much so.
Interviewer: What values did your family instill in you that you still live by today?
Seltzer: Um, I mean, that’s just so huge, like, my family has a lot of strong values that I just maintained.
Interviewer: What comes to mind, just one or two things that come to mind?
Seltzer: I mean, my mom, you know she has Alzheimer’s now. She’s still alive but she’s not really there anymore, but she was very much a feminist and very much an activist. She was really involved in anti-racism work and again, I mentioned education, like getting a progressive education and making education, like she was interested in, like one of the things about the Metropolitan School was that it was actively attempting to have people, multi-racial, socio-economic diversity kind-of a thing among students and she really felt, she really believed strongly in that, so, and my dad also, I mean, he was more the synagogue person. I mean, he was, like, a president multiple times at Beth Tikvah and that was kind-of where his activism happened, and my mom did more in the community.
Interviewer: Absolutely. I guess, this is a couple questions here that might be just very open-ended but what has helped you get through tough times and I think I would parenthetically what of your Jewishness?
Seltzer: Yeah. I mean, we’re in tough times right now and I’m talking and thinking about this a lot. I mean, I am and have been very active in Sukkat Shalom and in Central Ohio Jews For Justice and lean heavily on that. I mean, I’m also, like, I have a pretty strong friend network of social justice activists who aren’t religious and I’m really grateful to have the religious crutch, you know, like with, I mean there’s always bad things happening but, you know, we’re in a lull right now and moving toward the High Holidays and, you know using the spiritual practices that were given to work through those has been really meaningful for me and some of the things that are happening in the world right now.
Interviewer: It’s like kind-of a nice time to be doing this interview with the Days of Awe about to be upon us, so…
Seltzer: Yeah.
Interviewer: Uh, just a little bit about children, since you’ve raised a child and perhaps may have a grandchild someday, too.
Seltzer: I’m afraid not. We can always hope.
Interviewer: Well, but you never know, but what has, well, let’s like this. Compare the lives of children today to when you were young, and the influences on them today versus, you know.
Seltzer: So, my daughter’s old enough that she, like, didn’t have, that we didn’t have the internet, smart phones and stuff until she was well into middle school. I’m really grateful for that. She’s the oldest. I have three nephews and even, I mean, they’re not that, I mean, the youngest one is, just turned twenty-one, I think, so they’re even a little bit ahead of, like, the worst of the internet generation, I guess, so, I don’t exactly remember now what the question was, but that’s, like, my worry or noticing about the future of children, like, keeping them in relationship with each other and real life as opposed to just on the computers all the time.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. I think many people share that, that concern. Let’s shift over a little bit to the KSS parts of the, and the role that that congregation had in your community and your Jewish journey.
Seltzer: Yeah.
Interviewer: So, it’s been twenty years you’ve been involved with them.
Seltzer: Yeah. In the early years, so Tova was, like a said, she had her bat mitzvah was in, let’s see what I wrote down. I think her bat mitzvah was in 2009, August of 2009. Her birthday’s in February but we weren’t ready to do it yet, until August, and I think we started a few years before that.
Interviewer: Where did you have her bat mitzvah?
Seltzer: At the Unitarian Church, which is actually awesome, because I grew up right near there. My best friend growing up was active there and we used to, like in middle and high school, every other weekend I would spend the weekend with her and go to Unitarian Church and she would spend the weekend with me and we’d go to Beth Tikvah, so, and then Beth Tikvah used to do our High Holiday services at Unitarian Church and also, both my brother and my daughter went to SYC which is at Unitarian Church, so, it always felt like a second home to me anyways, and we were meeting, like, Little Minyan was meeting at the Presbyterian, Covenant Presbyterian Church in Upper Arlington, and so I think we were the first, I don’t know if we were the very first, but one of the early events that that community used the Unitarian Church and actually, the next bar mitzvah which was Graham Dunhow was also at the Unitarian Church, and, of course, now we meet at the Unitarian Church but that was many years alter that we started using it that regularly…
Interviewer: Sure.
Seltzer: …but that was where we did it and it was a trick, and, like I said, so, while we were unaffiliated, I was doing a little bit of trying to keep her Jewish education going and then, in those early years, like, right when we started, that was where my focus was, was the children’s education, like, so there was the Dunhows [sp?]and Jessica’s boys, who are a little bit, like her older son is the age of the younger of the Dunhow [sp?]boys, and then like Amiya’s oldest daughter Ezri is about their age so we had, like a group of kids, of which Tova, Tova and Graham were pretty close in age and then a kind-of a small number of slightly younger kids, and so that was where my focus was, was around how we were going to do Jewish education with our kids for the first number of years. With Tova, we actually contracted with a Rabbi Goldie Milgram, who actually was in the process of writing a book that’s now out about doing your own Bar or Bat mitzvah or something and we did, like, she was in, I think, Philadelphia and we did, like, monthly phone calls with her. We also hired someone who was a student at OSU to teach Tova Hebrew, you know, so it was kind of like a build-your-own adventure kind of a bar and bat mitzvah planning, bat mitzvah planning. You know, Rabbi Jessica hadn’t even started rabbinical school, like, I don’t even think we were even calling her a spiritual leader or anything. She was just another member of the congregation, but she and Bill Cohen, actually, did the music. Oh, and we hired Wendy Ungar. Rabbi Wendy Ungar was here locally, and she actually facilitated the actual…
Interviewer: And this was in the very early days of Sukkat Shalom.
Seltzer: Yeah. Right. I think it was within two or three years of when we started.
Interviewer: And that was the first.
Seltzer: She was the first, yeah. She has been given the mantle of the first bat mitzvah of the community.
Interviewer: And there wasn’t a bar mitzvah before her.
Seltzer: No, Graham was the next one.
Interviewer: He was official, so you had a bat mitzvah and a bar mitzvah and then you were really on a roll.
Seltzer: Yeah.
Interviewer: Okay, and at that point, you probably had more members.
Seltzer: Yeah, we were pretty big. I mean, like, we had a lot of people initially, I mean, I don’t know, like this is the part where, like, my memory isn’t so great, and like I said, I was less involved in running the group. I think my mom was involved in writing the original by-laws if I remember correctly.
Interviewer: Yeah, and that’s something we can’t get to.
Seltzer: Well, I might have them in a box. That’s the part.
Interviewer: Oh, your dad.
Seltzer: My parents have, not keepers, like, they’re, when we were talking about leaving things to your kids, I’m like, there’s things we wish they would have kept that they did not keep, so, I mean, I’m not saying he wouldn’t. He might, but I’m more likely to have it.
Interviewer: So, if you have documents or even tchotchkes, t-shirts, hats, you name it, that are related to KSS, Toby would love to see them, or have them for their displays…
Seltzer: Uhn-hun. Okay. Okay. I’m positive I have some in my basement.
Interviewer: …or have them for their displays.
Seltzer: Okay. Okay.
Interviewer: If you’re not willing to get rid of them, it’s fun to let her see them, and, you know.
Seltzer: Yeah. Yeah.
Interviewer: So, you know, those are things we can kind-of add to that. So, a little bit of comment maybe on the process of going from Reform to Reconstructionist.
Seltzer: Yeah, so, I always, like I said, even before the group happened, I wanted a Reconstructionist congregation, so, I was definitely, and Renee also, who was also an early member, and, the two of us as I said, had already been meeting before, Before anything happened to indicate there was going to be a Little Minyan, we were already trying to figure out how to start a Reconstructionist congregation.
Interviewer: Even before the issue with buying the prayerbooks?
Seltzer: Yeah, a hundred percent before, yeah, like we, well before there was even any concept of having the Little Minyan, we wanted to start a Reconstructionist congregation.
Interviewer: So, this was bubbling.
Seltzer: Yeah, and it goes back to what I said before. So, I personally wanted it because my sister in Ann Arbor had for many years been an active member of their Reconstruction chavurah. Renee’s ex-partner-wife-mother-of-her daughter, is a, and still is a Reconstructionist rabbi in the Washington, D.C. area.
Interviewer: Okay.
Seltzer: She’s even quoted in the prayerbook, like sometimes you’ll see, I’m blanking on what her name is, but she’s in there…
Interviewer: Okay.
Seltzer: …and Renee and her had been separated by then, but Renee had been with her when she went through the Reconstructionist college and, like I think, had even thought about being a Rabbi herself, but, wasn’t. She and I were really deeply interested in Reconstructionism. Side note, like, someone should interview my dad again, if you haven’t already, just about Sukkat Shalom, but actually, this isn’t even about Sukkat Shalom. This is about Beth Tikvah. He just told me this and I haven’t even told Jake yet. I said, “Let’s keep some paperwork” but he does keep some paperwork, because he was going through some very ancient Beth Tikvah paperwork things and he found something that someone had written, that before my mom and dad even came to Columbus, you know, originally Beth Tikvah was a group of academics at OSU who were meeting at Hillel. It wasn’t a synagogue either. It was just, like, they all lived on the Northside and just didn’t want to drive to the Eastside, and I don’t think it was even services. I think they were just meeting to be Jewish together, so they decided to start doing services. This is all stuff my dad has…
Interviewer: And this is before the Indianola location.
Seltzer: Yes, well before because that was the second location.
Interviewer: Oh. Alright. Okay.
Seltzer: I actually remember the High Street location. There was a building at the corner of East North Broadway and High Street where that big, tall white building is. That was a house and it was Beth Tikvah. It was the first location of Beth Tikvah…
Interviewer: Okay.
Seltzer: …and on my seventh birthday, we marched the Torah from that location to the Indianola location. It’s not that far, so I felt very special that it was a big parade on my birthday.
Interviewer: Oh, that’s great.
Seltzer: I remember it very well.
Interviewer: Oh, that’s great. Okay.
Seltzer: …but so my dad found something from one of the earlier members of Beth Tikvah before he even came to Columbus, had written, that said that they were going to start services and they were looking at prayerbooks and they were seriously considering – this was in, like,1960? ’61? -the Reconstructionist Congregation Prayerbook, like, they weren’t affiliating with Reconstructionist but they wanted to buy a prayerbook.
Interviewer: They liked that.
Seltzer: Yeah, that they received – they were meeting at Hillel – and the Hillel received a letter – my dad, can, he is the primary source for this but – from all of the rabbis in Columbus which included Temple Israel, which is Reform, saying that Hillel would be sanctioned if they let this group start using the Reconstructionist prayerbook.
Interviewer: That Little Minyan.
Seltzer: No. This was, this was Beth Tikvah.
Interviewer: Okay.
Seltzer: This was 1960. Way back in 1960…
Interviewer: Oh. Wow.
Seltzer: …the Columbus community was…
Interviewer:…at that point.
Seltzer: …anti-Reconstructionist.
Interviewer: In 1960.
Seltzer: Uhn-hn.
Interviewer: Okay. That’s important.
Seltzer: Yeah. Yeah. I was just, my dad literally just told me this the last time we had dinner and I was, like, I need to be sure that you guys get that information, so.
Interviewer: Okay. Thank you.
Seltzer: He has it through an article from somebody else who wrote about it, like, that’s his source, but we have the article.
Interviewer: Okay. That would be very significant, I think. Okay. Let’s see. Where, and you’ve already told me where your congregation has been located but now, you’re at the Universalist Unitarian Church in Weisheimer.
Seltzer: Yeah, I mean, we’re thrilled to never have owned a building and not had to deal with anything having to do with building ownership, but we primarily started at Covenant Presbyterian and then, I’m sure other people have told you this too. For many years we did our High Holidays at the Mennonite but more recently we’ve just stayed together at the Unitarian Church.
Interviewer: And so, what types of programs and services have there been?
Seltzer: Um, I mean, we’ve had twenty years. There’s a lot.
Interviewer: Well, you start off with a bat mitzvah and a bar mitzvah.
Seltzer: And our very first event, which I’m sure Rabbi Jessica will also tell you about, I mean, I, it’s the first thing I remember us doing and she maybe would be able to tell you where it was. It was a church along the Scioto River, and it was, I’m pretty sure it was for Shavuos, although I’m not positive about that…
Interviewer: Okay.
Seltzer: …but, you know, the whole thing about being, like, outdoors and in nature and that sort of thing, like, right from the very start, that was always big, like we used to do and we still do, sometimes services, like, we would gather in the Park of Roses and, like just all meet at the corner of the Community Center or whatever they call that building, and you know, we’ll find a plot of land and go sit there, and like, doing, like, one year, Sharon Tiano for Shavuos did a walk through Whetstone Park and doing tree identification and actually Jake just did that this past year, so kind-of doing that outdoors, being in nature and stuff has always been really popular. I definitely like environmental justice and being outdoors has always been a thread.
Interviewer: But you’ve had services for all the holidays…
Seltzer: Um-hm.
Interviewer: …pretty much all the way through?
Seltzer: Uhm-hm. Yeah, I mean, sometimes we can’t do one for a particular reason. I mean, like, again, like I, I mean, it was more erratic, in the early years, like, I don’t know that, I’m trying to think if I know, like, if, we didn’t do Saturday morning services so much. I really like the Saturday morning services we started doing a while back, but I think in the early years it was mostly Friday nights and maybe…
Interviewer: When did you start, when did you start Saturday morning, approximately? Five years ago? Ten years ago?
Seltzer: More than five, maybe ten. Again, like, Rabbi Jessica, so Mike Soams bought, Marcia Prager has a really beautiful prayerbook. She has both a Friday night and a Saturday morning prayerbook, but I would say, like at least ten years ago that Mike bought us ten of those and that’s what I remember us using first was those prayerbooks. We were still at Covenant Presbyterian Church when we started using those prayerbooks, so, I don’t know.
Interviewer: Alright. That gives us a little bit of a timeline. What does your congregation bring to the Central Ohio Jewish community or the broader community?
Seltzer: This is, like, I don’t know if this is relevant or not, but, I just wanted to throw in about the being outdoors thing, is that also at Covenant Presbyterian and at Unitarian Church, they both have
Interviewer: A mandala.
Seltzer: No. That, outdoors like a, there’s walls around it, but there’s a…
Interviewer: Courtyard.
Seltzer: Courtyard. Thank you.
Interviewer: Right.
Seltzer: And that’s always been a feature of our services, is like, meeting where you can, like, at the Covenant Presbyterian Church, it was their social hall, but the whole entire wall was out into the courtyard…
Interviewer: Yes.
Seltzer: …and so that’s, I don’t know what that means exactly but it’s definitely been important.
Interviewer: Well, that’s sort of the environmental connection.
Seltzer: Yeah
Interviewer: And what about, but what does your congregation bring to the Central Ohio Jewish community?
Seltzer: Yeah. I mean, so many things, like, I’m, I’m just a big fan, so, I mean, I think, I mean what I love about reconstructing Judaism specifically, I mean, we’ve always been like, kind-of a little bit more experimental, a little bit more willing to, like, try new things and, for me, a lot of that is rooted in Reconstruction and also Renewal. We are officially affiliated with Renewal also, and I think that’s really important, and I love that about us, so like, gender non-conforming. That wasn’t the words we had back then, like, it’s not just gender-neutral, because it’s also being willing to use gender language about mixing it up and having all of the genders, you know, and the Mother and Father, and all of the different ways that you might think about God, but, you know, kind-of just breaking out of a shell of limiting about that, about politics, you know, I mean the whole not just being the Chosen people, which doesn’t mean that there’s not something special about what our chosen-ness is but what everyone has their own chosen-ness and that we care about everyone equally. We just happen to be Jewish, but we also have in the Reconstructing Judaism Prayer that it’s for us and for all the rest of the world, like, that we’re not excluding. We’re including. Yeah, just being willing to try things, like, and being experimental and welcoming of, like excited about people that want to try something new and different. You know, not everybody wants to do everything but, you know, we welcome all the experiments.
Interviewer: And that reaches out to the community in general, too.
Seltzer: Well, we hope so. I mean, yeah, that’s one of my creaky-nesses is, I feel like we’ve, we’ve been more marginalized, a kind-of a, and it goes back, like that story about the rest of the community trying to tell these poor people at Hillel, like, that they couldn’t use a particular prayerbook. I feel like that’s never gone away in Columbus. I think other cities are less like that, like, I mean, I’m going on the record as being negative about the city, but I do feel like, I mean, one of the reasons why I’m excited for Central Ohio Jews for Justice, which I’m still working on is trying to be a place that people don’t have to feel like they’re abandoning their own denomination, by coming to someplace different, which, it shouldn’t be like that anyways, like, why shouldn’t you be free to go, like you love your congregation and you love your community but there’s also going to be some joy in going to other places and doing something a little bit different every now and then. That’s how I wish the world was more and it doesn’t feel like that’s how people think about it as much as I wish they would.
Interviewer: Where do your members come from?
Seltzer: Um, I mean, interestingly, more from Clintonville and like, I think OSU is definitely a draw, although not exclusively in any means, but that’s definitely been the theme.
Interviewer: And where are you now in terms of number of members, adults versus children, that type of thing?
Seltzer: Yeah, so, I’m, I’m less involved now than I was, like you had asked earlier on about my role and I had said, in the early years, I was involved in the youth education. When my daughter was like, in high school, I was, actually the least involved because I really focused on, you know, being a volunteer at her school an, you know, taking the kids on chaperoned trips and stuff like that and then when she went to college, I got really involved, so I was the Chair Elect for two years and then I was the Chair for six years, but I stopped that, like five or six years ago and I was still on the board until a year ago, but now I’m not even on the board anymore, so, my general sense is that we’re about the same size we’ve been for a long time, which is about forty families and that it’s pretty diverse, like, you know we definitely have a good chunk of people like me who are, you know, post kids in the home, but then a good chunk, we kind-of a little bit now, I’m sure other people can tell you this better than me, like we kind-of, most of our kids are either just recently bar or bat mitzvahed or really little, like we have very few that are in the in-between range right now, but we have a lot of little ones so that’s exciting.
Interviewer: It’s always nice to have some little ones around.
Seltzer: Yeah. Yeah.
Interviewer: Let’s talk a moment or two about the Torah in terms of where it came from or do we know?
Seltzer: Not a lot. I mean, so, I don’t know if anyone’s talked already about the Tianu Torah or not, so Sharon and Jerry Tianu were early members. I don’t think they were founding members, but early members n and they had a family Torah that was from Europe and was ancestral to their family and that’s what we use., like, Tova’s bat mitzvah was using their Torah. They moved, I actually wrote this down, in 2012. I was like, looking around for things to put dates to. They left Columbus, went to Denver and took their Torah with them and so that was when, I think, Rabbi Jessica reached out to Agudas Achim and now we’ve been using their Torah number something or other ever since.
Interviewer: So, that’s the Torah that you’ve got now.
Seltzer: Yeah. Uhn-hun
Interviewer: This is a little bit more general in terms of why do people go from Reconstruction having been in the Reform Movement, why they end up with a Reconstructionist congregation?
Seltzer: I mean, I wouldn’t say that, like, I mean, like, in that early original years, we did have people that left Beth Tikvah and we ended up being Reconstructionist, but I don’t know that people leave Reform any more than they leave anything else when it comes to Reconstructionism. I also just want to emphasize again that we are not just Reconstructionist. We are also affiliated with Renewal, which is unique and different and special and for some people, the Renewal is actually more important than the Reconstruction.
Interviewer: Okay. What has been your Jewish journey?
Seltzer: So, I, definitely in the years after college, was not, like, I didn’t join Beth Tikvah until after Garba and I started talking about getting married, like I don’t remember exactly when we became members. I think it was probably before marriage, but I did some amount of, and still am, because I feel like it’s compatible involvement with pagan spirituality also and like, the compatible part is because things like, you know, Jewish roots and pagan history, like, there’s just so many overlaps, like I, actually bring a lot of Jewish stuff to my pagan friends and they love it and are real interested in it and that’s been fun. You know, I don’t think they’re incompatible. I think they’re extremely compatible, you know, that you can have one God of multiple faces, you know, and so, I mean, it has been really important. I mean, I definitely have become, I would say, over time, more, you know, there’s that whole spiritual religious thing, but I really value that context of going through the cycle of the Jewish year and the different pieces that the different aspects of the calendar bring with it in terms of framing whatever else is happening in my life.
Interviewer: What notable occurrences have you experienced with or because of KSS? [Kehilat Sukkat Shalom]
Seltzer: I mean, like, like, just like, I had said before how I really liked Saturday morning services, like, when I was growing up Saturday morning service was just a bar or bat mitzvah, like you didn’t go unless it was somebody’s bar or bat mitzvah, and I finally, for my own like, you know, rhythm, like, I usually tired at night on Friday, and didn’t have a lot of attention and stuff, whereas I’m a morning person, and so like, I really love, and value some of the things about the Saturday morning service that I didn’t really know about because they aren’t lifted up during a bar or bat mitzvah that much, so that’s been really delightful and nice. I, my daughter and I went to Rabbi Jessica’s smicha for ALEPH when she became a rabbi and that was very moving. Never done anything like that before in my life.
Interviewer: I’m sure that’s a one in a lifetime kind of thing.
Seltzer: Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah, so that’s good. What do you hope to see for the next twenty years? So, we’ve got twenty years done. So, what’s the next twenty?
Seltzer: Um, I mean, I would like for us to grow a little bit, like, there’s always that, you know, push-pull of, you know, like I kind-of complained that Beth Tikvah was wonderful when I was growing up and then it got huge, so I don’t want it to get too big, but I do feel like more people could benefit from what we have to offer. It would be nice to have more services. You know, we do a, well, we just switched, so now we do a First Saturday and a Third Friday of every month and I don’t especially feel I need to go to services every Friday and every Saturday. That would be too much, but it might be nice to have a little bit more hands to do some of the things. I think sometimes people do feel a little burned out. You asked about doing all the holidays and I’m, like, well, sometimes there’s nobody to do a holiday, so….
Interviewer: Right. Right. So, you do what you can. Let’s see what else do I want to ask you? Jody was very enthusiastic about asking where your Jewish journey began. Is that a question that is significant for you or is it, I mean, if you say, ‘Well, my parents belonged to congregation so I went’ you know, that’s like, sort-of, you know?
Seltzer: Yeah, I mean, I was, you know you asked about my teenage years, like I never was best friends with any of the other kids at the synagogue either, but we had really amazing leaders at the Beth Tikvah. Most of my childhood we had part-time rabbis who were also academics, so they were very amazing. You know, like they were intelligent and had history and religious knowledge that they shared with us, like my, my own bat mitzvah was with Rabbi Roger Kline, who’s been in Cleveland for a long time since then, but he was an amazing person and just incredibly inspiring, so, so, like, that was all significant, and then, like, as I touched on going to Israel for my junior year of college, just…I took Hebrew all the way through, like, complained bitterly, you know, Mondays and Fridays having to take the bus up Indianola to get to Beth Tikvah to go to Hebrew School after school was over, but in college, my sophomore year, for some reason I signed up for history, I mean, for Hebrew classes and had a kind-of inspirational charismatic teacher who, like, encouraged us all to go to Israel, so I did, and had, like I said, a good year, but then I didn’t, I didn’t come back that involved in Judaism until it was time to start, you know, really getting married and raising my daughter when I sort-of came back to it.
Interviewer: Okay, and then you heard about KSS through your parents?
Seltzer: Uhm-hm.
Interviewer: Okay, so they, they’re the ones that kind-of said, maybe you’d be interested in this?
Seltzer: Yeah. I mean, I knew Jessica really well, so, like, we, she’s a little bit younger, a good bit younger than me, but we, she grew up at Beth Tikvah also and we, at Beth Tikvah, she and her mom had lead the Sisterhood at Beth Tikvah when I was at Beth Tikvah and I was very involved with that, like we did Rosh Chodesh events at Beth Tikvah that she and her mom were like, responsible for…
Interviewer: Okay.
Seltzer: …so we, definitely had a relationship, too. Might have even been if my parents wouldn’t have been there, she would have probably known to reach out to me and invite me also I mean, I knew, a lot of the people in those early years were, like, people that I grew up with, like my parents’ friends. You know, many, many of their close friends were some of those early founding members, many of whom eventually left, some of whom because they wanted to stay Reform and some of whom stayed longer and left over the years for various reasons.
Interviewer: So, you don’t really have too many of the founding members…
Seltzer: I do not believe…
Interviewer:…in the group at this point.
Seltzer: … that there is anybody else. I remember trying to think about that. I don’t think, like, my dad is. My mom and dad never stopped being members of Beth Tikvah, ever, like they always were members.
Interviewer: So, they did kind-of both?
Seltzer: Yes. Uhn-hun. Yeah.
Interviewer: And is your dad still kind-of doing both? Okay so he would be that link then.
Seltzer: Yes.
Interviewer: Then, and we’re just about to the end of these. How has Sukkat Shalom impacted your relationship with and your practice of Judaism? Has it changed you?
Seltzer: Yeah, for sure, I mean, it’s, I mean, I’ve learned so much from all of the other members, you know, like, also exposure to other things, you know, like, other organizations around the country and other ways of thinking about Judaism, um, it’s, I mean, like, yeah. I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t probably have stayed involved in Judaism without it, you know, so.
Interviewer: Oh. Well, that’s important.
Seltzer: Yeah.
Interviewer: How have you contributed to the community that your congregation provides? As a participatory community, what has your participation been?
Seltzer: Like, I said, I was the Chair of the Board for six years. That was a big lift…
Interviewer: That’s a very big thing.
Seltzer: …and then after I stopped that, I was the Social Justice Chair for, I think, four years.
Interviewer: What do you value most about your time with this congregation?
Seltzer: Um, I guess I’d have to say the relationships. You know, like, there’s just so many wonderful and interesting people and that have so much to offer and so like, learning from them and getting to experience whatever their passions are and being able to share my own, and doing it, and watching the kids grow up and staying in touch about how people are doing and just all that.
Interviewer: So, it’s still a very solid community regardless of where you are in the continuum of life within it.
Seltzer: Uhm-hm.
Interviewer: That’s the end of the organized questions I have. During our almost-an-hour of talking together, has anything popped into your head you wanted to mention, because now’s the time?
Seltzer: I was going back and forth a lot when I thought of things. I was just boring them out, so, I mean, I guess, like you had asked about momentous world events or whatever and I, like October 7th and what’s happening in Isael and Gaza…
Interviewer: Sure.
Seltzer: …like I have been very actively complaining that the Jewish community has not been more outspoken about what’s wrong in Israel and what’s wrong with what’s happening in the West Bank and Gaza…
Interviewer: Yeah.
Seltzer: …and I’m just so grateful, like, everyone at Sukkat Shalom doesn’t agree with me, but I don’t feel the least questioned of being safe to express that and some of the people I’m organizing with are very unsafe in their congregations and I just hate that, like it just breaks my heart…
Interviewer: Yeah.
Seltzer: …and I’m just grateful to have a place where I can be honest about that.
Interviewer: That’s extremely valuable in this day and age, with all that’s going on, very valuable. Anything else you can think of?
Seltzer: Um. I guess not.
Interviewer: So, on behalf of the Columbus Jewish Historical Foundation, I want to thank you for contributing to the Oral History Project and that concludes our interview.
Seltzer: Thank you. Very interesting.
Transcribed by Linda Kalette Schottenstein